Curse

Justis Guy · Dec 06, 2006, 01:20 PM // 13:20

I am pretty sure I am playing the same game

great graphics . . storyline mission thread . . . evil Gwen lol

my only complaint is the complainers . . . I hate being in a twon and some jerk is whining about this or that . . . oh, yeah and the beggars

my cats get on my lap while playing and it is rarley a problem for me, except when they help me play by pressing random keys on the keyboard. I had Dasiy try to res a character once instead of remove hex I needed on my toon lol, oh well it IS just a game . . . one I enjoy very much.

Antheus · Dec 06, 2006, 01:51 PM // 13:51

There's a difference between complaints, issues and whining.

Storage and trade system are an example of long desired features. Unfortunately, they don't necessarily fit into GW for several design reasons. Inventory space is a #1 complaint in each and every MMO anyway, so that's irrelevant. With GW being action game, there's very little emphasys on trading, and it's generally not encouraged apart from secure trading.

But then come other whines. DoA has sparked lots of comments about the difficulty. And that is whining. GW exists to provide challenge. Not to guide you through some passive story. And as the primary storyline is toned down, the challenging parts do apear harder than they really are.

The reason this ends up with such long rants is somewhat wrong. I see it as complaining about Tetris being too fast at highest level, and calling for nerf of speed, and a speed cap, so no more than 1 new block can apear every 3 seconds.

The challenge is there. Do it, or don't do it. But saying nerf "something" is nonsense. There are issues with certain spots, and there are valid complaints, but those fall under bugs, like weird agro behaviour, pathing issues, or perhaps even visual design, which some perceive as inadequate.

All comments on the AI, farming, conspiracies that affect loot, nerfs to skills, those are all natural occurances which do not affect many. There is just a minority of players who will use every oportunity to express their personal pet-peeve. But those don't matter. Since their only apeal in the game is in some fractional portion of content, they are left out of the big picture.

I believe that apart from a few random flukes, GW has consistently followed the track of original design. Apeals to casual player, but offers something for hardcore. Balances PvE and PvP, and all shades in between. It adds content in line with expectations, and improves existing concepts. And those that play GW for what it is, will see that everything is constantly improving. But if the one and only reason someone plays is to farm smites (and nothing more), then of course they'll feel that game is unfair to them. And to some extent, that's true. But that's not what the game is designed for.

Gorebrex · Dec 06, 2006, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Ive had some complaints, I usually keep about 90-95% of them to myself. The big one is storage, of course, but I also play Anarchy Online, and dont really have much to complain about, storage-wise. Need more inventory room? Buy another backpack, fill it, place in bank. Need even more space? Boost Adventuring to 100, buy the really big pack, fill that! Most of the things that irk me usually come from my connection, like erratic behavior, unexplained loss of connection(not err 007), ect. Plus, Im gonna have to get a new video card, as mines got a fan bearing going bad on me.

x64600 · Dec 06, 2006, 04:09 PM // 16:09

So if we are complaining about people who complain. Are we complaining about our complaining about people whose complaining warrants this complaining again?

Just sounds like more complaining to me.

Ninna · Dec 06, 2006, 04:20 PM // 16:20

the pet commentary was amusing

Feurin Longcastle · Dec 06, 2006, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Antheus, not to single you out, but the boundary you've selected between complaints and issues is arbitrary and subjective. There are legitimate concerns regarding DoA in addition to the complaining arising from it, and these issues are no less valid than desiring more storage.

In my opinion, if someone has an problem with some aspect of the game, that individual is complaining. If a large population of the playerbase voices the same complaint, only then does it become an issue. Many have been demanding increased storage and hairdressers and such; it's not an independently raised issue, and thus is affecting many individuals' enjoyment. Similarly, regardless of your stance on the difficulty of DoA you can see that there appears to be 10 people against it for every person for it (Whether this is the true ratio is not readily assessed from the boards alone, but it certainly gives you a good idea)

And finally, if you're having fun, then enjoy it. Your confusion about why others aren't having fun is likely a result of you not having played long enough yet. You will run out of things to do in GW. It's not like other MMO's where an endless grind is available. This is good for some, bad for others. Those wishing for something to do in PvE after endgame are frankly out of luck in GW. And so they wish to express their complaint about it.

Alleji · Dec 06, 2006, 04:50 PM // 16:50

People generally get upset and complain when anet somehow destroys the way of playing they're accustomed to, whether it is farming, their overpowered build, or a particular mode of PvP.

Personally, I'm extremely pissed off at them for killing HA with 6v6 and heroes. HA used to be my main activity in this game and had it been the only one, I would've quit GW, just like so many other old HA players. However, I find other things fun as well, so I'll keep playing as long as they keep me entertained, but it doesn't mean I'll pass up a chance to say "f*** you, anet" regarding Heroes' Ascent.

Darkobra · Dec 06, 2006, 05:14 PM // 17:14

Recently, I have wrote a lengthy, detailed review on the entire Guild Wars series. The character classes, their uses, the story, the graphics interface, the landscape, the music and even the player interaction. Now I have been completely honest writing this review, and can honestly say the Guild Wars series is great! Fair enough, it may have its rough patches, but what game doesn't? Sometimes people like to complain about the simplest things because they can no longer abuse them, like an overpowering build that they use because it's their only way for a surefire win, or sometimes the only fun they get is satisfying their unnecessary need for gold. I think people need to start from the very beginning and learn to appreciate the game again.

Mavrik · Dec 06, 2006, 05:26 PM // 17:26

I have greatly enjoyed the whole PvE since the beginning when Prophecies hit retail stores. I'll agree with what someone else said... Factions is a wart

and I'll finish it some day. But I love the heroes addition, the new character class... the areas. I'm currently with my dervish replaying and clearing all of tyria with a true sense of accomplishment. Though not ashamed to say this, all my other characters had gotten run to Droks but not my Dervish. She's the first one I have played the game "correctly" if you will.

When Anet did their nerf the other day and people complained that gold drops would be less frequent now... I got 3 in one area... in the course of 30 mins... and I'm not saying where.

Haven't had a black dye drop in a while.

But regardless... I can't name a single game I have played this long... I'm going on 20 months or something. Some changes along the way set me back... like the AoE nerf. And I scream aloud when that enemy will die in one hit and now I'm chasing him into another agro...

but oh well.

GJ ANET!

Antheus · Dec 06, 2006, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feurin Longcastle

Antheus, not to single you out, but the boundary you've selected between complaints and issues is arbitrary and subjective. There are legitimate concerns regarding DoA in addition to the complaining arising from it, and these issues are no less valid than desiring more storage.

In my opinion, if someone has an problem with some aspect of the game, that individual is complaining. If a large population of the playerbase voices the same complaint, only then does it become an issue. Many have been demanding increased storage and hairdressers and such; it's not an independently raised issue, and thus is affecting many individuals' enjoyment. Similarly, regardless of your stance on the difficulty of DoA you can see that there appears to be 10 people against it for every person for it (Whether this is the true ratio is not readily assessed from the boards alone, but it certainly gives you a good idea)

The relation between company and consumer with regard to a particular product states the terms which apply to each party in sales contract. This is a fact of life.

If anyone claims this is about greed, about getting ripped off, or about world being unfair, a reality check is in order.

Other than that:
- Games are about a challenge. In chess, you have constraints. The board is 8x8, pawn can only move in certain direction. Period. If you do not like these rules, you cannot play chess.

- Storage space is a rule. No trade house is a rule. Both of these constraints are there to enforce certain game dynamics. With limited storage space money circulation is increased. Increase storage, and this is reduced.

- Mission difficulty: Missions are challenges, intended to be overcome. It's what the game is about. In chess, learning opening flaws to prevent instant loss is what the game is about. Complaining that someone defeated you in 5 moves due to a mistake you made is wrong. You made a mistake. You can learn from it and become a better player, or you stop playing. These are the two options you have. But with internet game forums, a third option emerged. Whiners. I lost in 5 moves, nerf bishop, add a 6 move no-loss timer, prevent capturing of pieces in back line, etc. This - is unproductive

- Gameplay: In GW, a mob using SS in Ascalon would be a problem. With essentially no hex removal, and the low health, such mob would be a problem. Once again, this is gameplay issue, which causes balance problem. Reporting this is all it takes. Nothing more. If company does even remote administration, they'll recognize imbalanced situation, and resolve it. 'OMFG the b*&^$ SS mob f*%#$$ wiped me" is whining.

- Issues: Connectivity, stability, performance issues fall here. They are technical problems.

- Feature requests: Increased storage, cap on skill costs, hair-dresser, moddable weapons, identification kits, reliable skill capture acquisition, simpler pvp skill unlocks, ..... Yes, some of them were implemented. They are "requests". Not demands, "i'm gonna sue you", "DO THIS OR I QUIT' type of deals. "Hi, adding this would really help me" type of deal. That's it, nothing more.

- DoA: So what if it's hard. It's not too hard, since players are completing it. Can only 2% of players complete it? Perhaps. Think of the reward: You are one of the 2% that completed the most difficult area. That's better than FoW armor.

But nowhere, in any context, is whining warranted or apropriate. It doesn't serve a purpose, it's unconstructive. Companies laugh at whiners. Their true feedback comes from completely different sources. Login and area activity numbers, sales, marketing, focus groups, beta testers, database analysts (yep, Anet hires those specifically to analyze gameplay data), and more and more.

But never are whiners considered. Constructive feedback, good and bad, limited to dozens of posts overall, is what hints at areas that might have issues. Most of them, are disregarded, since they are irrelevant.

And just so nobody gets too frustrated trying to classify where your particular complaint falls under, play the game, and have fun, or stop playing, and go do something that's more fun for you. Be critical of your time, and realize that neither you, nor everyone together matter one bit. "Me, and my entire guild quit" is a joke comment that's smirked at. I've been at both sides of the argument, and I can tell you from plenty of experience, it doesn't matter. It's funny to read though. And no, no "you don't know what's good for business" nonsense either. Unless you're running a company that's more succesful in MMO domain, nobody can say what's better, or how Anet should run their business.

This is how it works, agree or not.

leprekan · Dec 06, 2006, 06:24 PM // 18:24

As one poster pointed out ... the "whiners" are SENT here by ANET. The mods should spend as much time killing the posts from people trolling saying play wow as they do the people complaining when they were SENT here. There isn't an acceptable reason for storage not being upgraded after 19 months. Limited storage space does not increase gold turn over. Perhaps when we had ONE chapter it did but we are looking at 3 chapters of crap at this stage .. do get a clue. Sugar coat it all you want but Anet falls short on core issues.

Jetdoc · Dec 06, 2006, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feurin Longcastle

If a large population of the playerbase voices the same complaint, only then does it become an issue. (Whether this is the true ratio is not readily assessed from the boards alone, but it certainly gives you a good idea)

Your confusion about why others aren't having fun is likely a result of you not having played long enough yet. You will run out of things to do in GW.

I appreciate the different views related to the OP's controversial (but well stated) post, but these two "counterpoints" I take exception with.

1. Forum complaints do NOT represent the opinions of a large population of the playerbase. As others have said, forums are a place for those that are discontent with the game to voice their opinions, and give suggestions as to how to address the sources of their discontent. As a result, forums are naturally much, much more negative than the actual playerbase. So, the simple fact that you see in a specific thread that the people complaining about an issue far outweigh those in that thread that don't think it's a problem has absolutely no bearing as to what the general population feels.

2. I've been playing (almost solely PvE) for 17 months, and have not run out of things to do in PROPHECIES, let alone in Factions and in Nightfall, and continue to get an immense source of enjoyment out of PvE as it is. As you stated, it is highly dependent upon how you play the game, and not necessarily based on how long you've played the game.

The Ernada · Dec 06, 2006, 07:36 PM // 19:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

As one poster pointed out ... the "whiners" are SENT here by ANET. The mods should spend as much time killing the posts from people trolling saying play wow as they do the people complaining when they were SENT here. There isn't an acceptable reason for storage not being upgraded after 19 months. Limited storage space does not increase gold turn over. Perhaps when we had ONE chapter it did but we are looking at 3 chapters of crap at this stage .. do get a clue. Sugar coat it all you want but Anet falls short on core issues.

No storage upgrade in 19 months? The materials storage doesnt count? I love how whiners like you like to conveniantly forget the good things out when they complain.

Yes I would LOVE to have more storage. But to demand it as if it were your god given right to have more storage is immature and unreasonable. As someone pointed out, all MMOs have storage issues. People will always want more storage.

Extra storage is NOT a core issue, it's just something people WANT and not a game breaking issue.

Superdarth · Dec 06, 2006, 07:39 PM // 19:39

People take all the good things for granted,they dont notice all the good things,just the bad things,so youl hear more complaints then compliments.

Also i think this is most peoples first MMO,so they might not know how good ( or bad) this game is compared to other games on the market.

Shadowspawn X · Dec 06, 2006, 07:40 PM // 19:40

The whining is killing the forums, its not warranted 95% of the time. Many people have left one particular board that has chronic whiners , who consider every piece of game content unnecessary grind. Its so bad if you were to discover a new weapon skin and post a pic you’d instantly get 5 replies saying how ugly it is. Many people wont post because no matter what the thread is about, the “ whine and cheese club” just hijack the thread and pollute it with moaning and groaning about some completely off topic issue. Its disgusting and doing a disservice to the community, because ultimately Anet is going to withdraw from the open communication that they have so generously maintained. I predict within the next year, no more ingame appearances by Gaile. And less frequent posts on the elite boards by Anet representatives if any.

My Sweet Revenga · Dec 06, 2006, 07:41 PM // 19:41

You should take note that mostly only the people who have a complaint go to the forums and complain. The people who have no complaints are likely busy playing the game.

lacasner · Dec 06, 2006, 07:43 PM // 19:43

I wish Anet can tell us the exact amount of people playing at one time, or preferably active accounts. This will settle many arguements on this forum.

Feurin Longcastle · Dec 06, 2006, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

I appreciate the different views related to the OP's controversial (but well stated) post, but these two "counterpoints" I take exception with.

1. Forum complaints do NOT represent the opinions of a large population of the playerbase. As others have said, forums are a place for those that are discontent with the game to voice their opinions, and give suggestions as to how to address the sources of their discontent. As a result, forums are naturally much, much more negative than the actual playerbase. So, the simple fact that you see in a specific thread that the people complaining about an issue far outweigh those in that thread that don't think it's a problem has absolutely no bearing as to what the general population feels.

2. I've been playing (almost solely PvE) for 17 months, and have not run out of things to do in PROPHECIES, let alone in Factions and in Nightfall, and continue to get an immense source of enjoyment out of PvE as it is. As you stated, it is highly dependent upon how you play the game, and not necessarily based on how long you've played the game.

I wanted to be careful and avoid implying that the forums are fully representative of the actual playerbase. I meant to suggest that if there is some issue that is affecting a large population of players negatively, they'd likely voice their opinions on the matter independent of other players, whether the medium of vocalization be in game, to a friend, or on the forums. The point I wanted to drive home was that if there is something that displeases a good proportion of the players that play the game, it's unfair to simply pass off their concern as mere "whining".

For point number 2, I envy you, I truly do. I've been playing this game for a year now, and my interest in it is dwindling. I doubt I'm the first person you've heard from that's made such a claim; the question is is this something that is affecting enough people to warrant a change? That I'm afraid is for Anet to decide. The most one person can really do is voice their opinion on these boards and see if there are others that share it, and hope that it draws the concern of Anet.

MSecorsky · Dec 06, 2006, 08:40 PM // 20:40

I no longer have a cat.

I was playing. I was hungry and not paying attention. The cat got too close.

What was this thread about again...

Phaern Majes · Dec 06, 2006, 09:25 PM // 21:25

Pessimism ftw! If you expect the worst nothing disappoints you. So no reason to complain